Season 19 Warm-up - Zandvoort (1967) - Mar 7

[EvilClive]

Shame that Atlas could not make it. , but in the end had an absolutely great time in the replacement "fun" event.

I was denied my favourite 2 litre Brabham by a conspiracy of the Mods to promote the 3 litre barges. So, I chose at random something that I expected to be about middle of the pack so that I could have some good close racing.

It soon became apparent that I had lucked out and was just about on the pace of John's Cooper 3ltr.

From the start the sheer grunt of the Cooper pulled John into Tarzan ahead and we began a nose to tail battle that lasted just about the whole race. Having made a pass into Tarzan early in the race, only to be swallowed up on the very next lap down the straight, it became very obvious that to stay ahead I had to get at least a second or more on John before he got that huge power advantage wound up on the straight.
I was definitely quicker around the twisty bits with the smooth handling of the Eagle and by staying in John's slipstream I could hold him on the straight. This gave me the option for a demon braking pass into Tarzan whenever I felt I wanted to try it.

As our combined pace was drawing us away from the field, I was content to sit behind and take the ride  and let John do all the hard work.
as the race went on I found that the big Eagle was becoming very comfortable and the exhaust note as it topped 10k revs was just spine tingling, so at every opportunity I wrung the neck of that V12 just to hear it howl.
The smooth torque curve made it a joy around the twisty bits and i could easily close up on John's tail pipes until............. with about 5 laps to go we began to close on a back marker and John suddenly slowed. I was totally unprepared for John suddenly slowing and promptly rammed him off the road  sry John was just so focused on the details of your gearbox  and unsighted by the wall of machinery that passes for an engine on the Cooper that I failed to see the slower car in front.

After that John got away and finished a deserved 1st, I proceeded to try too hard to catch him in the last few laps and succeeded only in making a few dumb mistakes and losing even more time.

90% of the race was nose to tail fun with John and well worth turning up for and a great warm up for the season to come.

[Turkey Machine]

After the first few laps in practice, I thought "this is gonna be a hard race". Then the Honda gave up it's secret: be gentle! The car felt sweeter the more I pushed it, and to get within a couple hundredths of Evil's speedy-Eagle was a good one, even if it may have been tow-assisted. The first lap "collision" with Al was unfortunate, he'd got a wobble on in the right-left-right before Schievak, which meant he was a lot slower for that corner. I took the inside line, kept it as tight as possible, however Al reckons the Honda kicked the tail out (entirely possible, it's got an alarming habit of doing that often) which presumably sent him disappearing into the dunes as he tumbled down Pribluda. Apologies for that, I'd hoped he'd seen me go for the gap and stayed around the outside.

[EvilClive]

Not wishing to pre-judge Jethro's contact with Al, but I have to say it has a familiar theme

"I'd hoped he'd seen me go for the gap and stayed around the outside."

Might I suggest that "hoping" someone will grant you free passage is not a good idea and almost guaranteed to end in tears.

Just because someone is faster on a certain section does not infer the right to a pass..... in last nights race I was undoubtedly quicker around the back of the circuit than John's Cooper, but there was nowhere that I could "safely" hope to stick my car and survive. In fact at Zandvoort, there is only one place that a pass is possible ( barring a real mistake and drastic loss of pace and line by the car in front!!) and that is into Tarzan with a slipstream and outbraking move.
Such a move can take several laps to "set up", ensuring that you enter the straight just far enough behind to benefit from the tow, but not too close to be forced to pull out too soon and lose the advantage. Plus of course confidence in your ability to keep the car straight under heavy braking AND keep it neat and tidy around the inside line with no ass end swipes at the opposition.

In fact this aspect of GPL is probably very close to Real Life in that patience is an absolute essential and the ability to pressure the driver in front into making that small error that will open the door (without causing any contact) and allow you to get the critical overlap and the pass.

Just my thoughts............

[Turkey Machine]

Al had made the error, I was trying to capitalise on it.

For the record, many times in F1, bad overtakes are made, and nobody is penalised for it. Eddie Irvine admits as such at the 2001 Canadian Grand Prix: "didn't do the greatest of overtaking manoevres on Heidfeld."

[Al Heller]

I know what you're saying Jethro & I think we were both trying to avoid a collision... but as food for thought I think you certainly are a quick enough driver not to have to even try any risky 50-50 moves the moment you catch up with someone. With your pace, that Honda's straightline speed & with 25 laps to go, you could have easily slipstreamed me down the main straight & outbraked me into Tarzan. Softly softly catchee monkee - is that not a Waza mantra?   

[EvilClive]

Al had made the error, I was trying to capitalise on it.

You cannot "try" to capitalise...either you know that you can and do make a succesful move, or you decide that it is only 50/50 and not worth the risk.

I'm just trying to offer some wisdom Jethro, as for whatever reason or fault you do seem to get involved in more "incidents" than a lot of drivers. Not all but most, and you definitely have the speed to make your way to the front unscathed if you choose your moments better.

The phrase.."drive like it's for real, and it will hurt someone if you get it wrong"   is a good mantra.

unofficial and totally subjective moderation mode.
Update..... 19:30pm..... just watched the replay and I have to say that in this instance  ( on my replay at least) Jethro was probably justified in going for the pass. Al was recovering from an excursion up the bank and was getting back up to speed but had left the inside line wide open. Jethro easily got his Honda alongside as they entered the corner and held it tight to the kerb as they travelled side by side
I think contact was unfortunate for both drivers but maybe Al squeezed in just a little too much in his eagerness to get the right line out of the corner.

I still stand by the "general" advice I offered before, but in this instance I think it was definitely more than a 50/50 opportunity. Now if JR could have given me such an opening I might have done the same.

[NickyIckx]

 
the moment I noticed this race changed over to a free fun event , I spontaneously jumped in .
  big fun , I nearly forgot how nice and powerful these sound of the 66cars is and how nice and detailed they do look .
  no question ; I had to do plenty of practise before I will be able to do any good , lol

[Podkrecony_Ziutek]

I've never drove 3L 66's cars, but I knew this track so I decided to try it.

My pace wasn't to bad, but I've made lots of mistakes.

Afther good racing with Nicky, Phil and Baab, I've finished fifth.

[Phil Thornton]

I've never drove 3L 66's cars, but I knew this track so I decided to try it.

My pace wasn't to bad, but I've made lots of mistakes.

Afther good racing with Nicky, Phil and Baab, I've finished fifth.

Well done Pod.  Now I know your race name I've updated the results table to show your real name (well SRou name).  It is quite difficult to work out who is who in chat, race and the forums if people use different names for each.  Especially if they are as unusual (well for an Englishman) as yours .  If you use the same race name from now on there should be no problems, SRou maintains the association.

[Podkrecony_Ziutek]

Well done Pod.

Thanks Phil

Now I know your race name I've updated the results table to show your real name (well SRou name).

Well I'm using my real i name for last two seasons

I considered switching from my nickname to my real name also on the forum, but them I've decided that I don't want to punish you guys witch that

[Turkey Machine]

Any chance I can have my lap back that the server took off please? Kthxbye.

[Phil Thornton]

Any chance I can have my lap back that the server took off please? Kthxbye.

I've checked the server replay (now available on Mike's website via the link in the normal place - on UKGPL homepage) and you crossed the line 13 seconds behind JR so that puts you in second place.  Unfortunately all the messing about with the inter league on and off has caused a bit of havoc in the results system and for some reason I can't pull the results out of the database to correct them.  I'll have to ask Giz to look into that for me.

With regards to the incident with Al this is my "unofficial" interpretation because it is only a fun race and I haven't consulted the other mods.  I normally moderate an incident in 3 sections, Description, Analysis and Ruling.

1.  Description.  Al makes a mistake at Jan de Wyker, putting a wheel on the grass and then runs wide on the exit loosing momentum.  Jethro is much faster out of Jan de Wyker and makes a pass under braking for Scheivlak taking the inside line but keeping close to the kerb.  Al tries to defend but contact is made and Al spins out.  Jethro is unaffected.

2.  Analysis.   Al made a mistake which presented Jethro with an opportunity he was entitled to take.  Jethro managed to get over 50% overlap under braking for Scheivlak but not the 100% that would allow him to claim the corner outright (see Penalty Guidelines for Ambitious Overtake and the diagram under Corner Rights in the Recommended Driver Behaviour).  At this point the drivers are fighting for position and should keep to their own side of the track.  Jethro quite correctly keeps very close to the kerb and Al gives Jethro room, but only just enough.  It appears Al doesn't realize there is a car on the inside.  Al tries to take the racing line but as the cars reach the apex of Scheivlak the gap between them closes and contact is made on Al's client.  There was no contact on the server so warp was a mitigating factor. 

3.  Ruling.  There are 3 possible interpretations:
a.  Racing Incident - Ambitious Overtake - Contested Overtake - Scenario 1
b.  Racing Incident - Side by Side Contact - Contested Side by Side Contact - Scenario 1
c.  Penalty for Al - Side by Side Contact - Simple Side by Side contact - Scenario 4

Personally I'd go for option a. 

Having made the mistake Al should of expected an attack and stayed wide on Scheivlak.  He needed to keep an eye on his mirrors and if he couldn't see the car behind he should have expected it to be along side.  Easier said than done!!!  One thing to bear in mind is the car on the outside will always be susceptible to warp contact.  It is an unavoidable aspect to on-line racing.  If this had occurred in a league race then my only advice to you here Jethro is to let the moderating process run it's course.  You've been involved in so many incidents people will automatically assume it is your fault.  You need to report incidents through the formal channels and the moderators will be impartial and fair.

[bernie]

You need to report incidents through the formal channels and the moderators will be impartial and fair.

Please send all donations in plain brown envelopes to :-

Mr P Thornton
Chief moderator
Zandvoort circuit
Nederlands

(folding notes of large denomination escpecially welcome )

 

 

[Hristo Itchov]

Personally I'd go for option a. 

Having made the mistake Al should of expected an attack and stayed wide on Scheivlak.  He needed to keep an eye on his mirrors and if he couldn't see the car behind he should have expected it to be along side.  Easier said than done!!!  One thing to bear in mind is the car on the outside will always be susceptible to warp contact.  It is an unavoidable aspect to on-line racing.  If this had occurred in a league race then my only advice to you here Jethro is to let the moderating process run it's course.  You've been involved in so many incidents people will automatically assume it is your fault.  You need to report incidents through the formal channels and the moderators will be impartial and fair.

In my opinion, if you're not distracted and racing normally, and you know that there's been a car following you closely for some time, and you hear their engine sound, then if you still hear their engine but you don't see them, or even if you don't pay attention to the sound but suddenly you don't see them, then that means one thing - they're in your blind spot and you have to take measure about it. I'd say this is a racing incident.

Jethro went for a gap that existed, Al kept his line but didn't leave enough room to account for possible warp contact. The result was contact. Can't see any ambitious overtaking attempts or on-purpose dirty manouvers. It's racing, guys. The important thing is to try to be more aware of other cars around you and take appropriate measure without taking unnecessary risk that if something goes wrong nothing good will come out of it.

[Turkey Machine]

You need to report incidents through the formal channels and the moderators will be impartial and fair.

Please send all donations in plain brown envelopes to :-

Mr P Thornton
Chief moderator
Zandvoort circuit
Nederlands

(folding notes of large denomination escpecially welcome )

 

 

Your cynicism much appreciated Bernie.

Cheers for the support and "moderation" comments guys. Gives an intriguing insight into the mod process for incidents like this.