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   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register     LM2 Replays Rules Links Circuits Teams  
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  • S20N Mosport: October 12, 2010
October 12, 2010, 09:40:56 PM +0100 - Mosport - UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Novices Trophy (65)
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
maddog
 
Cooper T77 (Climax) F1 1965 5 +1.341
---
1 (+2) 40:02.417
---
27 1:26.726
---
Dunlop  
Ross Neilson
 Clark-Hill Racing
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 4 +1.114
---
2 +5.751
---
27 1:27.217
---
Goodyear  
vosblod
 Clark-Hill Racing
Cooper T77 (Climax) F1 1965 3 +0.970
---
3 +13.054
---
27 1:27.541
---
Dunlop  
roguk
 Clark-Hill Racing
Cooper T77 (Climax) F1 1965 7 +1.539
---
4 +16.159
---
27 1:27.767
---
Dunlop  
NHance
 Mountside Racing
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 2 +0.759
---
5 +22.194
---
27 1:26.745
---
Goodyear  
blito
 Nessuna Speranza
Ferrari 512 F1 1965 9 +1.912
---
6 +35.046
---
27 1:28.908
---
Dunlop  
Artiglietti
 
Lotus 33 (Climax 1965) F1 1965 1 1:25.779
---
7 (+2) +42.465
---
27 1:25.896
---
Dunlop  
miner2049er
 Clark-Hill Racing
Cooper T77 (Climax) F1 1965 15 +2.624
---
8 +1:00.081
---
27 1:28.732
---
Dunlop  
happyal
 Clark-Hill Racing
Ferrari 512 F1 1965 11 +2.054
---
9 +1:05.377
---
27 1:28.121
---
Dunlop  
Ronniepeterson
 
Lotus 33 (Climax 1965) F1 1965 6 +1.471
---
10 +1:09.131
---
27 1:27.201
---
Dunlop  
Nigel Smith
 HikiWazaRacing
Honda RA272 F1 1965 10 +1.938
---
11 +1L
---
26 1:27.590
---
Goodyear  
karlisss
 
Honda RA272 F1 1965 16 +4.147
---
12 (+2) +59.476
---
26 1:29.140
---
Goodyear  
BadBlood
 HikiWazaRacing
Honda RA272 F1 1965 17 +4.785
---
13 (+2) +2L
---
25 1:30.483
---
Goodyear  
il_lupo_mannaro
 
Ferrari 512 F1 1965 12 +2.242
---
14 +15L
---
12 1:27.981
---
Dunlop  
norbert
 Antipasti Racing
Ferrari 512 F1 1965 13 +2.242
---
15 +18L
---
9 1:28.483
---
Dunlop  
Billy Nobrakes
 Black Night Racing
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 8 +1.856
---
16 +24L
---
3 1:31.183
---
Goodyear  
norbert
 Antipasti Racing
Ferrari 512 F1 1965 14 +2.417
---
17 DNS ---
---
Dunlop  
5 UKGPL
 
Lotus 33 (Climax 1965) F1 1965 18 ---
---
Dunlop  

Moderator's Report

The opening race of the season always throws up some interesting incidents and this was no exception.

We had one starting from the pit lane and we had Norbert closing his eyes and counting to 10 while we all ran away to hide, but would he find us or not?

This race also goes to show that having speed does not necessarily give you race wins. Actually it also goes to show that crossing the line first doesn't necessarily give you race wins.

If anyone knows why Karliss took a Stop n Go after lap5 please send your answers on a postcard to:

Unsolved Mysteries
UKGPL
P.O. Box 1965


Server replay time: 0h01m20s

Karliss follows PWhitfield into T3 and hits him, spinning him off.
At the point of turn Karliss he has no overlap and PWhitfield was always going to take the racing line and close the gap.

  • karlissspenalty — Simple Ambitious Overtake — 1 place lost
  • karlissspenalty — Lap 1 incident — 1 place lost


Server replay time: 0h01m25s

Paul Whitfield spins off and rather than simply rejoining the track he takes a SHIFT R to get back.
As this was not a free SHIFT R he should take a Stop n Go penalty at the end of the lap.
New drivers should be aware that they should carefully rejoin the track where possible as a SHIFT R has a few consequences.
(1) It drops you straight back on track at a standstill, sometimes on the racing line.
(2) It resets your fuel level and tyre temps to the way you started the race, making you slower for the rest of the race.
(3) If it is your fault, you have to take Stop n Go penalty for every SHIFT R you take.

Advice (see later)

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 0h04m45s

AA recovers to the track and is getting back up to racing speed but before he has done so he goes straight to the racing line.
Karliss goes to overtake him and can be clearly seen in AAs mirrors but AA moves over and the 2 crash
AA takes a SHIFT R but does not take a Stop n Go.
Karliss takes a free SHIFT R.
Nigel Smith gets caught up in the incident and also takes a free SHIFT R.

AA admits to being "a bit cheeky there" and seems to miss the point in his explanation of what his options were and where Karliss should have gone.

Karliss should have been given the racing line and had every right to it. AA should have lifted if necessary to avoid interfering with a car traveling at racing speed.

Drivers must always, always, always stay off the racing line when rejoining and until they get back up to racing speed.

The 30s penalty is waived as the place punishment is deemed sufficient.


Server replay time: 0h04m46s

Al Baldwin exits moss and touches the grass on the exit and loses momentum but recovers.
Ronnie Peterson is following closely and is slow to react hitting Al.

As Mike exits Moss he sees the dirt kicked up by Al but the incident appears to be over before the 2 cars collide and block the track
Ronnie had already avoided a collision at Moss by backing out of a pass but he seemed to react slowly to Al's error
Mike gets caught up in the collision but has nowhere to go to avoid it
Ronnie takes a SHIFT R
Al takes a SHIFT R
Mike does not

Ronnie is following very closely after backing out of a pass and has already avoided a collision. He has little time to react to Al's mistake and hits him.

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 0h06m50s

Ronnie Peterson tries to overtake Al Baldwin but does not quite have the speed to do it as they approach the end of the straight
Al takes the racing line at the approach to turn 8 as Ronnie has no overlap.
Ronnie should have known Al would take the racing line and should have lifted.
Ronnie takes a SHIFT R with a Stop n Go

Ronnie intended to drop in behind Al having given up on the pass but misjudged the gap.

Al checked his mirrors before moving over and thought he had enough room, but it is always the responsibility of the following driver to avoid a collision.

Only Ronnie was affected and he took a Stop n Go.

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 0h15m50s

Norbert loses control at Moss but recovers and continues.
Ronnie sees him lose control and goes to the inside to pass expecting Norbert to spin wide
He hits Norbert as he turns in.
Ronnie should have lifted and given Norbert the line as at the turn in point he has no overlap.
Having said that, Norbert had lost control of his car and hit the armco making him unpredictable which would let Ronnie off the hook.


Server replay time: 0h20m50s

PWhitfield is being passed by Ronnie Peterson and moves over into him Ronnie takes a free SHIFT R.
Ronnie is clear in Paul's mirrors from Moss and disappears alongside so PW knows he is there and should not have moved over.

Whether this move over was careless or due to the car losing control as it went over the hump is not clear, but drivers must always be aware of what is around them and take care when being passed.


Server replay time: 0h22m28s

Vosblod is lapping P Whitfield
Vosblod goes for the inside but PWhitfield covers that line.
Vosblod moves to the outside but does not leave enough room on the inside and ends up in the middle of the middle of the circuit.
Although Paul hits the kerb and slides into Vosblod, he was not left enough room on the inside.

Only Vosblod was affected.

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 0h23m40s

Vosblod enters Moss1 and gets hit from behind by MHunt.

MHunt comes from a long way back and simply brakes too late giving himself nowhere to go as Vosblod takes the racing line to which he is entitled.
The gap that MHunt had to aim for was always going to close as he was not close enough to have any overlap at turn in and simply arrived too fast.

It is doubtful that this was an attempted overtake and probably MHunt was caught out by Vos' braking, but it is always the responsibility of the following driver to avoid a collision.

MHunt took a Stop n Go following the incident but did not need to as they should only be taken following a SHIFT R.


Server replay time: 0h24m00s

PWhitfield spins and is stuck at the exit of Moss2.
He reverses across the track and over the racing line almost collecting Vosblod.
He should have stayed on the inside of the track away from the racing line and reversed away from the corner before rejoining more safely.

P Whitfield took a SHIFT R but did not need to, so I will use this SHIFT R to offset the untaken one from lap 1.


Server replay time: 0h28m00s

AA is lapping PWhitfield who can see and hear him clearly.
AA goes to the left and can be seen in PWs mirrors but AA moves over into him as he had with Vosblod earlier
AA should stay further left because when they touch they are both in the middle of the track, but having said that the impact is clearly PWs fault.
AA takes SHIFT R with no Stop n Go.

When overtaking a car, either for position or while lapping, it is important to stick to your own side of the track. To stray towards the centre line, even if that is the racing line is asking for trouble. In this instance the driver was being lapped and should have lifted off (without compromising his own race).


Server replay time: 0h32m10s

AA attempts to pass Mike but is on the centre line as oppose to his own side of the track. As they reach the right kink before turn 8 AA is already on the centre line and turns right into Mike who stays right of the centre line.
The 2 cars are running closely together but neither replay suggests actual contact though the cars' collision boxes may have touched.

AA is on the centre line similarly to his other incident 4 minutes earlier which also resulted in a crash.
It is the responsibility of the overtaking driver to execute a move cleanly and to stick to their own side of the track during the move.

The violent reaction of AAs car suggests that warp is involved and is a mitigating factor though care should be taken to avoid inviting a warp incident in the future.

Warp Incident

  • Racing incident

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Author Topic: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Novices Trophy (65) - Mosport - Oct 12  (Read 10348 times)
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happyal
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« Reply #30 on: October 14, 2010, 02:23:01 PM +0100 »

Thanks Jehro, I will add a clip to my inciedent report.
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BadBlood
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« Reply #31 on: October 14, 2010, 04:22:45 PM +0100 »

It'll still put me last though <sigh>
I think I was last in every race of my first season, bar a few times when others disco'd...
'Disco' - I'm happy to take gifts from the Gods  laugh
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blito
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« Reply #32 on: October 14, 2010, 07:49:48 PM +0100 »

Badblood - i`ve done a few rough calculations to help us prepare for Zeltweg.

My qual time and my race pb AND my average race lap time at Mosport were all roughly 102.5% of the man at the front.
Now, this seasons speeds at Mossie were roughly the same as last time Novices were at Mossie so ive used this fact to guess some likely speeds of our opponants at Zeltweg -

Likely pole time - 1:51.5 (est.)
Likely race best - 1:52.5 (est.)

Blito qual pace - 1:54.5 (est.)
Blito race pace - 1:55.5 (est.)

so, based on that, Badblood, if you are already at 1:56 then you have closed the gap to the front runners quite considerably..... IF you can do that time repeatedly without mowing the grass every other lap Cheesy

hope people find these guesses useful Smiley

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« Reply #33 on: October 14, 2010, 08:21:40 PM +0100 »

Thanks for that Jason - here's the results of our last outing at Zeltweg ; https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=8158#event2083
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BadBlood
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« Reply #34 on: October 14, 2010, 11:06:58 PM +0100 »

Thanks Jason.

That is quite interesting. I ran at 113% of front runner pace due to various offs. I qualified with 106%.

The 1:56 - if I can do it will qualify me last at about 105%. I assume we will run for 40 mins again which is about 22 laps. - If I lose 5 secs a lap that will be 110 seconds behind at 22 laps - a full lap. That is running at 1:56. I can't keep that pace up for more than three or four laps so I will more likely run at 1:58 - 2:00 losing an average of 8 seconds a lap - a lap down at about 14 laps. That is roughly the same as Mosport. Interestingly I drove the first twelve-thirteen laps at Mosport at an average of 1:33. There were two laps above 1:33. The last twelve to thirteen, there were only two laps under 1:33. Of course that was where I started getting lapped.

I just hope I can be a good citizen and meet the lappers at 'easier' parts of the circuit - start-finish straight would be nice  Grin
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vosblod
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« Reply #35 on: October 14, 2010, 11:32:07 PM +0100 »

Thanks Jason.
That is quite interesting. I ran at 113% of front runner pace due to various offs. I qualified with 106%.
The 1:56 - if I can do it will qualify me last at about 105%. I assume we will run for 40 mins again which is about 22 laps. - If I lose 5 secs a lap that will be 110 seconds behind at 22 laps - a full lap. That is running at 1:56. I can't keep that pace up for more than three or four laps so I will more likely run at 1:58 - 2:00 losing an average of 8 seconds a lap - a lap down at about 14 laps. That is roughly the same as Mosport. Interestingly I drove the first twelve-thirteen laps at Mosport at an average of 1:33. There were two laps above 1:33. The last twelve to thirteen, there were only two laps under 1:33. Of course that was where I started getting lapped.
I just hope I can be a good citizen and meet the lappers at 'easier' parts of the circuit - start-finish straight would be nice  Grin
Blimey are you our secret Statmeister Grin

It's been posted before but this guide deserves another mention.
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« Reply #36 on: October 15, 2010, 01:12:18 AM +0100 »

Well I do have a degree in Mathematics  Grin

I just wanted to know how bad it was going to be... For instance, my PB in a 65 at Spa is 3:56 - still 15 seconds down. I top out at 165mph - is that OK? I must be losing a bunch of time in the corners. Sector times are evenish around 1.01m, 55sec, 57secs and 1.02. Don't even mention Adelaide  Lips Sealed
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« Reply #37 on: October 15, 2010, 04:24:33 AM +0100 »

Well I do have a degree in Mathematics  Grin

I just wanted to know how bad it was going to be... For instance, my PB in a 65 at Spa is 3:56 - still 15 seconds down. I top out at 165mph - is that OK? I must be losing a bunch of time in the corners. Sector times are evenish around 1.01m, 55sec, 57secs and 1.02. Don't even mention Adelaide  Lips Sealed

One thing, Paul - why don't you expect that your times are going to go down over time as you do more and more practice? It's not realistic to think that you've reached your limit and settle for that, nor is it a positive thing to do (imo). I'm sure you'll be a much better driver by the end of the season, it's inevitable.
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« Reply #38 on: October 15, 2010, 07:05:20 AM +0100 »

As i`ve said before in this post, being able to stay on the track for long distances is more valuable than being able to do a few hotlaps. Pace wise, i think being within 110% of the leader without crashing is better than being at 105% and crashing. Also, as the mighty H has just said, you will inevitably get faster just through putting in more laps as the season goes on. Concentrate on consistency for now and you will find the speed creeps up as you start to feel your way into things.
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Jason Blito
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« Reply #39 on: October 15, 2010, 07:30:06 AM +0100 »

Sage advice - the problem is that the head knows I should slow down for that corner and score 1 point for the team...

...the heart says 'ooh, you can brake a little later and carry more speed in here - there's a PB going begging'

Guess which wins.

'Hello hedge!'  Grin
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« Reply #40 on: October 15, 2010, 07:46:59 AM +0100 »

One thing, Paul - why don't you expect that your times are going to go down over time as you do more and more practice?

I do think I will get better but the size of the gap is what worries me - I used to brake straight and then turn into the corner as if I were driving a road car, I learnt to trail brake (although I am still a novice at that) and that took off loads. The improvements I am making now are still basic (line, exit speed) but the time differnces are tenths of a second. How am I ever going to bridge the kind of gap I have at Spa?

The main issue I guess is that I feel like I am doing it right and yet the times are slow - witness Mosport. Try as I might I could not get below 1:30. If I look at Tim Muttrams replays his tyres are squealing all the way through a corner - as soon as I go fast enough to get the tyres screaming I lose it. That may well be line and experience but trying to drive within myself to keep it on the tarmac seems to militate against learning to drive on the edge.

My basic car control is relatively poor and I take my hats off to the rest of you. Frustrating but fun. I would never go on a real track though - I'd kill somebody - probably me  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #41 on: October 15, 2010, 09:41:39 AM +0100 »

I wouldn't use your top speed at Spa as any kind of guide as it is a freakish circuit, and people overinflate their tyres there to extract another couple of mph, and the slipstream means you need a loooooong gear there as you can kill an engine just by over revving while following a car.

As has been said, go more for consistency than speed and speed will come.

It's been talked about in these forums plenty of times but your fastest laps don't necessarily feel fast because you need to relax more rather than drive the wheels off it. If you brake slightly earlier and have a slower entry to a corner you will have more control at the apex and be able to get back on the throttle before you even reach the apex usually, that will give you a much faster exit and a higher terminal speed before the next braking zone. You make far more time that way than banzai last minute braking manouvres, especially at Zeltweg and Spa where there are long sections of acceleration and full throttle.

I don't chase my GPL rank and try to hotlap any more. I've got green negative times at some of the easier circuits by trying but generally I go slower the more I try to go faster. My negative Watkins lap in 67s came about more because I got into a nice rhythm than trying to go fast and I was suprised when I saw just how quick my lap was.

Practise, practise, practise and go for consistency and you will be surprised how much quicker that will make you.

My lap times in race 1 at Mosport were awful but I was the highest climber with 7 or 8 places, and I only had to actually make a pass on 2 cars.
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« Reply #42 on: October 15, 2010, 09:46:11 AM +0100 »

BTW, the Lotus setups I used a couple of season ago are downloadable here and took me to 2nd in the championship.

They will be pretty steady and predictable.

http://www.jamesonline.net/gpl/downloads.htm
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« Reply #43 on: October 15, 2010, 01:56:47 PM +0100 »

Mike

I'm a Waza - I couldn't possibly touch a Lotus - SHE would be cross (Ok - but only if you don't tell HER!)  Wink

Cheers.
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« Reply #44 on: October 15, 2010, 03:05:31 PM +0100 »

Watch out Paul, there are big ears about. I' trying to find white skins for the lotus and bt11 for Imola spec race. lol
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Hipo-Waza
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