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  • S20N Mosport: October 12, 2010
October 12, 2010, 09:40:56 PM +0100 - Mosport - UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Novices Trophy (65)
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
maddog
 
Cooper T77 (Climax) F1 1965 5 +1.341
---
1 (+2) 40:02.417
---
27 1:26.726
---
Dunlop  
Ross Neilson
 Clark-Hill Racing
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 4 +1.114
---
2 +5.751
---
27 1:27.217
---
Goodyear  
vosblod
 Clark-Hill Racing
Cooper T77 (Climax) F1 1965 3 +0.970
---
3 +13.054
---
27 1:27.541
---
Dunlop  
roguk
 Clark-Hill Racing
Cooper T77 (Climax) F1 1965 7 +1.539
---
4 +16.159
---
27 1:27.767
---
Dunlop  
NHance
 Mountside Racing
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 2 +0.759
---
5 +22.194
---
27 1:26.745
---
Goodyear  
blito
 Nessuna Speranza
Ferrari 512 F1 1965 9 +1.912
---
6 +35.046
---
27 1:28.908
---
Dunlop  
Artiglietti
 
Lotus 33 (Climax 1965) F1 1965 1 1:25.779
---
7 (+2) +42.465
---
27 1:25.896
---
Dunlop  
miner2049er
 Clark-Hill Racing
Cooper T77 (Climax) F1 1965 15 +2.624
---
8 +1:00.081
---
27 1:28.732
---
Dunlop  
happyal
 Clark-Hill Racing
Ferrari 512 F1 1965 11 +2.054
---
9 +1:05.377
---
27 1:28.121
---
Dunlop  
Ronniepeterson
 
Lotus 33 (Climax 1965) F1 1965 6 +1.471
---
10 +1:09.131
---
27 1:27.201
---
Dunlop  
Nigel Smith
 HikiWazaRacing
Honda RA272 F1 1965 10 +1.938
---
11 +1L
---
26 1:27.590
---
Goodyear  
karlisss
 
Honda RA272 F1 1965 16 +4.147
---
12 (+2) +59.476
---
26 1:29.140
---
Goodyear  
BadBlood
 HikiWazaRacing
Honda RA272 F1 1965 17 +4.785
---
13 (+2) +2L
---
25 1:30.483
---
Goodyear  
il_lupo_mannaro
 
Ferrari 512 F1 1965 12 +2.242
---
14 +15L
---
12 1:27.981
---
Dunlop  
norbert
 Antipasti Racing
Ferrari 512 F1 1965 13 +2.242
---
15 +18L
---
9 1:28.483
---
Dunlop  
Billy Nobrakes
 Black Night Racing
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 8 +1.856
---
16 +24L
---
3 1:31.183
---
Goodyear  
norbert
 Antipasti Racing
Ferrari 512 F1 1965 14 +2.417
---
17 DNS ---
---
Dunlop  
5 UKGPL
 
Lotus 33 (Climax 1965) F1 1965 18 ---
---
Dunlop  

Moderator's Report

The opening race of the season always throws up some interesting incidents and this was no exception.

We had one starting from the pit lane and we had Norbert closing his eyes and counting to 10 while we all ran away to hide, but would he find us or not?

This race also goes to show that having speed does not necessarily give you race wins. Actually it also goes to show that crossing the line first doesn't necessarily give you race wins.

If anyone knows why Karliss took a Stop n Go after lap5 please send your answers on a postcard to:

Unsolved Mysteries
UKGPL
P.O. Box 1965


Server replay time: 0h01m20s

Karliss follows PWhitfield into T3 and hits him, spinning him off.
At the point of turn Karliss he has no overlap and PWhitfield was always going to take the racing line and close the gap.

  • karlissspenalty — Simple Ambitious Overtake — 1 place lost
  • karlissspenalty — Lap 1 incident — 1 place lost


Server replay time: 0h01m25s

Paul Whitfield spins off and rather than simply rejoining the track he takes a SHIFT R to get back.
As this was not a free SHIFT R he should take a Stop n Go penalty at the end of the lap.
New drivers should be aware that they should carefully rejoin the track where possible as a SHIFT R has a few consequences.
(1) It drops you straight back on track at a standstill, sometimes on the racing line.
(2) It resets your fuel level and tyre temps to the way you started the race, making you slower for the rest of the race.
(3) If it is your fault, you have to take Stop n Go penalty for every SHIFT R you take.

Advice (see later)

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 0h04m45s

AA recovers to the track and is getting back up to racing speed but before he has done so he goes straight to the racing line.
Karliss goes to overtake him and can be clearly seen in AAs mirrors but AA moves over and the 2 crash
AA takes a SHIFT R but does not take a Stop n Go.
Karliss takes a free SHIFT R.
Nigel Smith gets caught up in the incident and also takes a free SHIFT R.

AA admits to being "a bit cheeky there" and seems to miss the point in his explanation of what his options were and where Karliss should have gone.

Karliss should have been given the racing line and had every right to it. AA should have lifted if necessary to avoid interfering with a car traveling at racing speed.

Drivers must always, always, always stay off the racing line when rejoining and until they get back up to racing speed.

The 30s penalty is waived as the place punishment is deemed sufficient.


Server replay time: 0h04m46s

Al Baldwin exits moss and touches the grass on the exit and loses momentum but recovers.
Ronnie Peterson is following closely and is slow to react hitting Al.

As Mike exits Moss he sees the dirt kicked up by Al but the incident appears to be over before the 2 cars collide and block the track
Ronnie had already avoided a collision at Moss by backing out of a pass but he seemed to react slowly to Al's error
Mike gets caught up in the collision but has nowhere to go to avoid it
Ronnie takes a SHIFT R
Al takes a SHIFT R
Mike does not

Ronnie is following very closely after backing out of a pass and has already avoided a collision. He has little time to react to Al's mistake and hits him.

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 0h06m50s

Ronnie Peterson tries to overtake Al Baldwin but does not quite have the speed to do it as they approach the end of the straight
Al takes the racing line at the approach to turn 8 as Ronnie has no overlap.
Ronnie should have known Al would take the racing line and should have lifted.
Ronnie takes a SHIFT R with a Stop n Go

Ronnie intended to drop in behind Al having given up on the pass but misjudged the gap.

Al checked his mirrors before moving over and thought he had enough room, but it is always the responsibility of the following driver to avoid a collision.

Only Ronnie was affected and he took a Stop n Go.

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 0h15m50s

Norbert loses control at Moss but recovers and continues.
Ronnie sees him lose control and goes to the inside to pass expecting Norbert to spin wide
He hits Norbert as he turns in.
Ronnie should have lifted and given Norbert the line as at the turn in point he has no overlap.
Having said that, Norbert had lost control of his car and hit the armco making him unpredictable which would let Ronnie off the hook.


Server replay time: 0h20m50s

PWhitfield is being passed by Ronnie Peterson and moves over into him Ronnie takes a free SHIFT R.
Ronnie is clear in Paul's mirrors from Moss and disappears alongside so PW knows he is there and should not have moved over.

Whether this move over was careless or due to the car losing control as it went over the hump is not clear, but drivers must always be aware of what is around them and take care when being passed.


Server replay time: 0h22m28s

Vosblod is lapping P Whitfield
Vosblod goes for the inside but PWhitfield covers that line.
Vosblod moves to the outside but does not leave enough room on the inside and ends up in the middle of the middle of the circuit.
Although Paul hits the kerb and slides into Vosblod, he was not left enough room on the inside.

Only Vosblod was affected.

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 0h23m40s

Vosblod enters Moss1 and gets hit from behind by MHunt.

MHunt comes from a long way back and simply brakes too late giving himself nowhere to go as Vosblod takes the racing line to which he is entitled.
The gap that MHunt had to aim for was always going to close as he was not close enough to have any overlap at turn in and simply arrived too fast.

It is doubtful that this was an attempted overtake and probably MHunt was caught out by Vos' braking, but it is always the responsibility of the following driver to avoid a collision.

MHunt took a Stop n Go following the incident but did not need to as they should only be taken following a SHIFT R.


Server replay time: 0h24m00s

PWhitfield spins and is stuck at the exit of Moss2.
He reverses across the track and over the racing line almost collecting Vosblod.
He should have stayed on the inside of the track away from the racing line and reversed away from the corner before rejoining more safely.

P Whitfield took a SHIFT R but did not need to, so I will use this SHIFT R to offset the untaken one from lap 1.


Server replay time: 0h28m00s

AA is lapping PWhitfield who can see and hear him clearly.
AA goes to the left and can be seen in PWs mirrors but AA moves over into him as he had with Vosblod earlier
AA should stay further left because when they touch they are both in the middle of the track, but having said that the impact is clearly PWs fault.
AA takes SHIFT R with no Stop n Go.

When overtaking a car, either for position or while lapping, it is important to stick to your own side of the track. To stray towards the centre line, even if that is the racing line is asking for trouble. In this instance the driver was being lapped and should have lifted off (without compromising his own race).


Server replay time: 0h32m10s

AA attempts to pass Mike but is on the centre line as oppose to his own side of the track. As they reach the right kink before turn 8 AA is already on the centre line and turns right into Mike who stays right of the centre line.
The 2 cars are running closely together but neither replay suggests actual contact though the cars' collision boxes may have touched.

AA is on the centre line similarly to his other incident 4 minutes earlier which also resulted in a crash.
It is the responsibility of the overtaking driver to execute a move cleanly and to stick to their own side of the track during the move.

The violent reaction of AAs car suggests that warp is involved and is a mitigating factor though care should be taken to avoid inviting a warp incident in the future.

Warp Incident

  • Racing incident

Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5
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Author Topic: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Novices Trophy (65) - Mosport - Oct 12  (Read 10354 times)
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miner2049er
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« Reply #45 on: October 15, 2010, 03:32:51 PM +0100 »

Mike

I'm a Waza - I couldn't possibly touch a Lotus - SHE would be cross (Ok - but only if you don't tell HER!)  Wink

Cheers.

Yes but the download page has info on how to change it into a Honda setup, though obviously the gearing will be wrong as you have an extra gear.

I also have some Honda setups there as I used it for my first season in 65s.
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Hristo Itchov
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« Reply #46 on: October 15, 2010, 03:45:22 PM +0100 »

Sage advice - the problem is that the head knows I should slow down for that corner and score 1 point for the team...

...the heart says 'ooh, you can brake a little later and carry more speed in here - there's a PB going begging'

Guess which wins.

'Hello hedge!'  Grin

Don't worry about team points for the time being, just enjoy your races and do whatever you want. If it's taking more risks, then go ahead. I find that the single most efficient way to improve speed is to take big risks in practice and step out of your security limits. It may lead to a lot of crashes, but you'll explore unknown territory a lot quicker.

The downside is it may hurt your consistency if you don't combine it with long runs without making mistakes. I guess doing both is the best approach, but it also takes the most time.

I do think I will get better but the size of the gap is what worries me - I used to brake straight and then turn into the corner as if I were driving a road car, I learnt to trail brake (although I am still a novice at that) and that took off loads. The improvements I am making now are still basic (line, exit speed) but the time differnces are tenths of a second. How am I ever going to bridge the kind of gap I have at Spa?

The main issue I guess is that I feel like I am doing it right and yet the times are slow - witness Mosport. Try as I might I could not get below 1:30. If I look at Tim Muttrams replays his tyres are squealing all the way through a corner - as soon as I go fast enough to get the tyres screaming I lose it. That may well be line and experience but trying to drive within myself to keep it on the tarmac seems to militate against learning to drive on the edge.

My basic car control is relatively poor and I take my hats off to the rest of you. Frustrating but fun. I would never go on a real track though - I'd kill somebody - probably me  Roll Eyes

I advise you not to look at other people's times too much. It just creates a lot of unnecessary pressure on yourself. Going by your own lap times would work better and is much more objective as well. Use your current lap times as a guideline for your improvement.

So forget about the others and drive at your own pace and limits, otherwise you'll be making more mistakes because of pressure to perform better. If you instead look at the different areas in your driving and approach, you can pinpoint what needs to be worked on. I mean small things like braking technique, steering input, throttle control, and then track related things like braking points, entry line, throttle application moments and so on. And then there is car setup... so you see you have a lot to focus on instead of your opponent's lap times.  Wink
« Last Edit: October 15, 2010, 03:56:47 PM +0100 by Hristo Itchov » Logged

BadBlood
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« Reply #47 on: October 16, 2010, 09:35:06 PM +0100 »

OK - I get it - I have a LOT to work on... Grin
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EvilClive
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« Reply #48 on: October 16, 2010, 10:21:51 PM +0100 »

For what its worth Paul, 99% of the drivers that you think of as alien ( there are a few that were actually born on the planet Zorg and have scales and 4 arms with servo assisted braking feet  Roll Eyes )  were exactly where you are now. Standing at the bottom of what looks like an enourmously hard climb. I am currently hanging by my fingernails about half way up!!!  w00t
Your biggest competitor at the moment is not the other guys on the grid, but rather your car and the track. Beat the circuit and master the car and you will find your results improve.
Forget about how fast or slow you are going relative to the top guys, rather concentrate on racing the guy who is usually next to you on the grid. That means being consistant at "your" speed and matching yourself against achievable goals.
As has been said...you may be 5 secs a lap slower at the moment ( and that gap is already closing Wink ) but a trip into the scenery will cost you a minimum of 10 secs for a Shift-R and getting back up to speed. Considerably more if you are forced to wait for the track to clear!! Then you are obliged to do a stop and go...another 10 secs.
So, one "off" by a driver in front will cost ( at least) the equivalent of 4 laps of his faster speed. If you can negotiate the whole race without incident and the other guy has two or more excursions........ you work it out  Grin
At the moment your best weapon is the other guys mistake. If you can control the urge to try and hang on to someone who is currently faster than you are, and drive your own race without mistakes you WILL pick up places.
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BadBlood
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« Reply #49 on: October 16, 2010, 11:46:15 PM +0100 »

Thanks Evil-San. I listen and obey. Actually, I probably get excited and crash I was running tenth at Mosport and doing OK when it all went wrong and then I tried too hard to catch up. It is a bit frustrating to run at my pace and watch everyone else disappearing. The differential at Spa means I am hoping for a crash every other lap  Roll Eyes Not too sure I will achieve too much there but there is always my friend DISCO...
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« Reply #50 on: October 17, 2010, 06:08:43 PM +0100 »

i think this puts it into persepective :- at our recent Mosport race i finished 6th despite only being 13th fastest in the race!
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Jason Blito
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« Reply #51 on: October 17, 2010, 10:59:48 PM +0100 »

Good point Jason... Mind you, of those that didn't disco I was slowest...


... and last  Grin

Looking forward to Sunday.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2010, 08:30:13 AM +0100 by BadBlood » Logged

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« Reply #52 on: October 23, 2010, 04:31:07 PM +0100 »

Best wishes to the moderator/s who are still hard at work on this one. It could be a long season!
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BadBlood
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« Reply #53 on: October 23, 2010, 07:12:46 PM +0100 »

Not as long for me as you...

...at least on laps completed  Roll Eyes
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Ross Neilson
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« Reply #54 on: October 24, 2010, 11:47:05 AM +0100 »

Best wishes to the moderator/s who are still hard at work on this one. It could be a long season!

I'm sure Mike (miner2049er) will appreciate those sentiments Ronnie. Last I heard, this has taken him longer to review than any other race he has modded before Smiley
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miner2049er
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« Reply #55 on: October 24, 2010, 03:16:23 PM +0100 »

Race Mod published.

For the new members (and those with bad memories) check the top of the page for each incident and it's comments.

If you wish to appeal any moderated incident, the procedure is to PM the Chief Moderator (Vosblod) though bear in mind that the incidents are not modded solely by me but are also overlooked by all moderators and the Chief moderator will have had some input already.

They will however respond to all appeals.

I would advise everybody to read the comments above as they are not intended solely as punishments for the guilty, but also for advice to everybody. Pay particular attention to the avoidable incidents caused by straying too close to the centre line while passing or being passed.
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« Reply #56 on: October 24, 2010, 03:34:25 PM +0100 »

Advice and warnings accepted. Sorry again Norbert.
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blito
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« Reply #57 on: October 24, 2010, 04:07:13 PM +0100 »

Great work there Mr. Moderator.

Slightly o/t but why is the Ferrari listed as a 512? Surely its a 1512? Or are we really allowed to run 5 litre sports cars? Wink
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Jason Blito
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« Reply #58 on: October 24, 2010, 04:17:24 PM +0100 »

Slightly o/t but why is the Ferrari listed as a 512? Surely its a 1512? Or are we really allowed to run 5 litre sports cars? Wink
Wow, we will have to give you the title of UKGPL Eagle Eyes - don't think anyone has ever spotted that before Wink
It's set up in the system - I think Giz will have a million things to do on his return from Australia so won't raise it just yet...
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« Reply #59 on: October 24, 2010, 04:56:27 PM +0100 »

For nearly the entire 1964 season the car used was the V8 powered 158, Ferrari (And god only knows why, considering Fez had been a key player in pushing for the switch back to 3ls in 66) designed a V12 version of this car in the tail end of '64 while searching for more power (perhaps inspired by the Waza's?). The new V12 was peaky and more unreliable than the V8 although it worked well at tracks like Spa where the extra power would prove usefull (the 158 proved far quicker at tracks like Clermont and also the added reliability resulted in the car still being raced by the factory team though 1965).
It was officially designated as the 512 F1 (Ferrari always used a 3 digit designator on chassis back then), it was only refered to as the 1512 unofficially  Smiley
« Last Edit: October 24, 2010, 04:58:10 PM +0100 by FullMetalGasket » Logged
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